Today we are joined by private investigator Pat McKenna and legendary attorney F Lee Bailey for a discussion of OJ and the criminal justice system. We begin by discussing some of the recent media reports about OJ that have come out in the tabloid press. The three of us address these bogus claims that OJ was thrown out of the Cosmopolitanism hotel in Las Vegas. Lee also tells us about his background in the Marine Corp and how he became one of the most famous trial lawyers. We then move onto some new research by Brian Heiss looking at a forgery in Nicole Simpson’s dairy. We discuss how Fred Goldman helped lobby California’s legislature to allow the diary and the forgery into the civil trial. Lee gives us his legal perspective about the civil trial and the ways in which it was conducted. He talks about the numerous instances in which false information was introduced as evidence, and how this has convinced many that the civil trial was the “good trial.” We explore how the media treated the criminal jury and how this influenced the civil juries verdict. Later Lee and Pat discuss the criminal trial itself. Lee talks about his cross examination of Mark Fuhrman. He talks about the moment he knew he had caught Fuhrman in his own web of lies. Pat and Lee also touch on how Judge Ito wouldn’t allow several witnesses who were willing to testify that Fuhrman was a virulent racist.
In the second hour Lee and Pat discuss their book project which deals with both OJ’s criminal and civil trials. They talk about how their book will differ from the plethora of OJ related books. Lee in particular touches on several important aspects that will be included in the book that were not widely know during the trial. Lee and Pat discuss the continued importance of truly understanding this case, and their hopes for the future generation. Lee also talks about his own theory as to the motive of the murders: a drug killing that meant to target Faye Resnick. Later Pat and Lee discuss the school they have founded for teaching investigative skills. Lee talks about the need for teaching trial lawyers how to turn facts into evidence, and how many lawyers are not fully equipped to carry out investigations. Pat talks about a similar problem facing private investigator’s and what he will be teaching. We also talk about the role that Hollywood has played in crafting our understanding of criminal justice. Lee talks about the problem that show’s like CSI have had on the criminal justice system. We round out the show by talking about some of the problems with forensic evidence. We talk about things like shoe print analysis and how that played a role with OJ and the infamous Bruno Magli shoes. We also touch on the problems with hair and fiber analysis.
Legendary private investigator Pat McKenna joins me once again to discuss our favorite topic, the OJ Simpson trial. We start off by discussing OJ’s imminent release from Lovelock Prison on parole. Pat and I address several of the misconceptions and falsehoods when it comes OJ’s convictions for armed robbery and kidnapping. Then Pat and I move onto the media’s barrage of bogus and misleading stories related to OJ and his release on parole. We talk about the the Goldman families PR machine pushing the idea that Justin and Sydney are receiving money from OJ for real estate deals, and how this is based on nothing.
Later Pat and I answer and address several questions from UK listener Simon. First we tackle Marcia Clark’s erroneous statement that Fuhrman couldn’t have framed OJ because he wouldn’t have know OJ had no alibi. We then dive into Clark’s statements on EDTA being found in your blood naturally and explain how this is a gross miss-characterization of the true facts. Pat and I then discuss the blood evidence on the socks and back gate. We talk about not only that EDTA was found on those samples, but explore how these are two are part of the larger plot by the police to frame OJ Simpson. Pat and I finish off by tackling one of the most asked questions by OJ detractors: What about the Bruno Magli shoes? We break down the major problems with the alleged photo’s, how they came into possession of Dan Petrocelli, and the truth over whether or not OJ actually owned them. Pat and I also talk about how the general public has convinced themselves of certain “facts” in the case even when they turn out to be totally false.
Pat McKenna joins us again for another in-depth discussion of the OJ Simpson trial and his first hand experiences investigating it. We begin by focusing on one of the most basic but largely overlooked aspects of the case: the timeline. Pat and I dissect the numerous problems with the prosecutions time line of events. Aside from their reliance on questionable characters like screenwriter Pablo Fenjeves, Pat and I break down how no one, let alone OJ could have physically committed these murders in the time allotted by the prosecution. Pat demonstrates that OJ would have had to have murdered both Ron and Nicole, driven home, banged on Kato’s air conditioner, dropped the glove, washed off all the blood, changed clothes, and gotten in the limo in roughly 22-25 minutes. Pat and I talk about the ways in which the prosecution leaned on and pressured witness to present their testimony in such a way as to fit into this rushed timeline. Pat and I discuss the fact that OJ and Kato went and around back to investigate the mysterious three thumps and at no point does either one of them see a glove or move a glove. We also focus on how the prosecution’s version of events often leads one to posit that there was a larger conspiracy in which one or more person’s helped OJ in the murder. Pat and I also talk about the need to approach the timeline in a logical manner.
In the second hour Pat and I discuss Brian Heiss’ timeline and present evidence that logically has the murders taking place much later than the 10:15pm clock that the prosecution claimed. We talk about Ron’s movements on the night on June 12, and show how he could not have left his house until 10:30pm at the earliest. Pat demonstrates how this would have Ron arriving at Nicole’s closer to 10:36 which lines up with ear witness Denise Pilnak. Pat and I also talk about the physical act of the murders which by all accounts was much longer than the prosecution wanted to admit. Pat also answers several listener questions including: who was the intended target, how do Brett Cantor and Michael Nigg’s murders fit in, the alleged break in of Jennifer Ameli’s office. Pat also talks about meeting with Anthony Pellicano who had been hired by Mark Fuhrman to acquire the infamous Fuhrman tapes, and the role that the now incarcerated PI played in the trial.
Legendary private investigator Pat McKenna joins me today to discuss his work on the OJ Simpson trial. We begin by discussing Pat’s initial work on the case which took him to Chicago. Pat talks about his three weeks there interviewing numerous witnesses who saw OJ. Pat explains how like most people he assumed that the media was right and OJ was guilty. Yet as his investigation unfolded, interviewing people such as the staff at the hotel near the O’Hare airport, to people on the plane, Pat began to come to the realization that OJ was not the murder. Pat points out some of the key pieces of evidence he discovered there which point towards someone other than OJ being the killer. We discuss how OJ signed numerous autographs yet no one remembers him as having cut up and bloody hands. Pat also talks about the fact that OJ only left his hotel room after he was told of his ex-wifes murder, which casts doubt on the theory that he left to bury evidence. Pat also talks about Chicago PD’s assertion that the LAPD began screwing up evidence the moment they received it from Chicago. Next we move onto Mark Fuhrman, his racist past and the numerous problems with his timeline of events on the night in question. Pat explains his own investigation into Fuhrman’s background and lays out how Fuhrman planted the gloves. Pat also breaks down the impossibility of the prosecutions timeline of events that night.
In the second hour we take a look at one one the most overlooked but important witnesses in the case, Tom Lange, the last person to have seen Nicole Simpson alive. We explore both the original police report and Lange’s own personal notes on what he saw the night of June 12, 1994. Pat explains how Lange saw Nicole talking with two men a few minutes after 10pm who were driving a White Ford 350 truck. Pat talks about the credibility of Lange and why his story should be trusted, as well as why the LAPD and prosecution never followed up with him. We also point out some of the discrepancies between the police report and what Lange actually stated he saw that night. Later we talk a look at other eye and ear witnesses from that night and show how nearly all of them contradict the prosecutions own timeline. Pat also touches on the ways in which the prosecution went after these witnesses and trotted out the most untrustworthy individuals to prop up their increasingly flimsy case. Pat also breaks down the numerous issues with the infamous bloody socks. Pat and I also touch on the allegations that drugs played a part in the murder.
Pat will be joining me again very soon so let me know if you have any questions you would like us to discuss.
For the subscriber only bonus podcast we are joined by return guest Brian Heiss to discuss his recent work on Nicole Simpson’s infamous 911 call from October 25th, 1993. This call has become a legend in the OJ saga; being portrayed for the last 22 years as definitive proof that OJ was in indeed a violent psychopath. For the last 22 years only a partial transcript and two and half minute audio version has been publicly available. For the first time ever Brian has provided the full 13 minutes of the 911 call in a digitally remastered version. Brian and I begin by discussing the glaring omissions in the transcript. We discuss the numerous references to Nicole’s drug use by OJ through out the 911 call. Brian and I talk about the general tone of the call. While the media has portrayed this as OJ freaking out on Nicole in a jealous rage, when listening to the whole call you can see that OJ sounds fed up with Nicole’s dangerous behavior. We talk about OJ’s anger over Nicole performing oral sex on Zeith Zlomsowitch while their kids are sleeping upstairs. How OJ warns her in the call about Keith’s alleged drug dealing and connection to Hollywood madame Heidi Fleiss. Brian and I also talk about how this changes not only the narrative of their tumultuous relationship, but how this might go towards explaining what transpired on June 12, 1994.
NOTE: Brian has not released this audio/video publicly. Brian intends to release this publicly in December. PPR subscribers have been given exclusive access to this 911 call. So please do not share this around or post on the internet.
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